IT'S A GAS, GAS, GAS!!
MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVES/WEEKLY ROCK POLL POST
Return to Gasx3/Poll Post Board Homepage
Name: Keno
E-Mail:
Subject: RE: BJ to Beethoven
Date: Thursday, November 15, 2018
Time: 12:17:20 PM
Remote Address: 97.107.69.29
Message ID: 318710
Parent ID: 318702
Thread ID: 318661
I'm just gonna quote you since there's a bunch to reply too.
I think the problem with giving a bald 0-10 rating scale, is there is no definition of what a 0 or a 10 or everything in between, might be.
Agree. But then again, back 20 years ago when this site was new, I did write up a rating scale and it's still online, even if I haven't looked at it myself in years. Seems that my old scale from yesterday agrees more so with you today than I do, LOL! Now that I just looked it over, I think my scale from 1998 - along with what you noted, is really more correct than what I stated here about a 7 the other day. But what can I say, I really ain't aging well, I really do say things that I might not totally believe (or maybe mean) these days, so I apologize for that. Anyway, here's a link to that Rating Scale Page. A 7 is a very good rating indeed, Mr pluto.
On the basis that I've chosen to rate musicianship, I think if I gave Brian Jones a 10 then I would be placing him in the same bracket ability wise as say, Beethoven as a composer.....
Yeah, but we aren't rating classical music here or such a person, we're rating a rocker who played rock music. You can't compare the 2 since there wasn't anything close to rock music back in Beethoven's day. Had there been, you got to wonder how - say, his "Symphony No. 5" would have sounded as a heavy metal piece with metal guitars barring away on it?! Or maybe "Ode to Joy" sang as as a heavy metal number with his Ninth barring away in the background with loud and crazy rock music backing it! Or just picture Ludwig van banging away on his piano to say - in the way that Jerry Lee Lewis played to in a frenzy back his prime in the early 1960s? Yeah, that's interesting to think of, but then again can you even picture it? Well, not really, and no, we can't compare BJ to Beethoven, it's like comparing Jack Daniels to mother's milk. So IMO, rating BJ a 10 as a rock musician isn't the same thing as rating Beethoven a 10. Yet I bet the 2 might have gotten along great in life had they met, too.
I think it would be a dis-service to the memory of Jones to overestimate his abilities, in the same way that many do him a dis-service by underestimating what he brought to not just the Stones, but to popular music in the sixties
But what about underrating his abilities? Is that fair? Can you name another rocker - just one, who was better than he when it came to the number of instruments he played? I did note Dave Mason. But who else was as good as them 2 in rock music at playing that many instruments? Or would you not rate any of the rocker musicians a 10? Plus remember, I'm not talking here about any one instrument, or even 10... or 20 instruments. I'm talking around 30 of them, since I don't know the exact number. I recall reading that the number was around 31 or 32 different instruments that he played. Who else could do that... or did that? That alone gives him a 10 in my book!
I think to suggest that Jones had mastery over the array of instruments that he tried his hand at, is somewhat erroneous. Mastery of most instruments requires years of focused and repeated practice, under the best tutelage available. By way of illustration; such is the level of musical and technical challenge in some of the above mentioned Rachmaninov piano pieces, that a concert pianist wouldn't attempt them without at least a decade's practice under the aforementioned tuition. Jones didn't have anything like that on one instrument let alone the range that he had a go at.
I've heard this almost exact talk about BJ here in the distant past and again, I totally disagree. To begin with, BJ played several of the instruments that he mastered for many years. He started playing piano at age 5 (his mother taught it to him at that age, as she was a piano teacher) and he was an excellent piano player. I recall getting into it with some fool that insisted that it wasn't Brian playing the piano on "Ruby Tuesday" since it sounded too good and above what Brian could play. Well it was excellent piano playing and it was he playing the piano on that song!.. Then while yes, his marimba playing on 'UMT' is repetitive, it still sounds great, and as far as his recorder on "Ruby Tuesday", I have a friend who plays the instrument who would totally disagree with your comment on his playing on that song. It isn't simple recorder playing at all! Plus if you think playing a sitar is an easy instruments to play, then how come most musicians can't play one? Plus once he picked one up - he kept playing a lot - something Keith Richards noted and actually complained about, that it was the only thing for the last 2 years of his life that he ever wanted to play.... Oh, and don't forget his guitar playing, he played that for years and was a better than average player for sure.
If some Indian masters took a jaundiced view of Jones' efforts on the sitar, it was no doubt in part, because it didn't in any way show what the instrument would be capable of in their hands.
No, not at all! It's because they couldn't play their sitars in that matter. They were jealous of the sound he came up with and they just thought that they are so superior to any rocker, that's all it was back in the lat e '60s. Did you even know that Ravi Shankar at first - until he met George Harrison - hated how George played his sitar on "Norwegian Wood"? This came from Ravi's son, who said that he hate what he heard George playing, and he only appreciated the song and George's work after he got to know George and finally admitted later on that he actually did like his playing on there. That older generation just was that way towards the Baby Boomers, most of them anyway. They couldn't at first respect anything that our BB generation did, period. That was the deal with BJ's playing too, no way could a hippie-punk rocker could look good in their eyes, even if deep down they knew the sound they were hearing was good indeed! But in time as they grew into old men, they realize that what they were hearing back in the '60s was really great music indeed,and that they were wrong to say what they did!
I just had a friend stop by so I got to end this, but really, BJ was special and any rating under a 8 to the poll question isn't really looking at the entire picture at all. With that stated, I still respect your point of view even if I disagree with it, but I do wonder if you would rate any rocker a 10 on this question, going by what you noted so far.
Note: Do not hit the "Post Message" button more than once, even if it is taking a long time to post your message. Doing so may cause a double post to appear and could slow down your posting time even more.
Download your free, customizable Burton Networks Message Board now!
© 1998 - 2022 by Keno Internet Services, except where otherwise noted. All rights reserved.