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Name: Keno
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Subject: RE: RE: RE: MT writing credits/ Royalties
Date: Tuesday, May 02, 2017
Time: 1:26:20 PM
Remote Address: 66.36.115.94
Message ID: 308168
Parent ID: 308164
Thread ID: 308142
Some excellent comments here, and they are all true, for the most part. I'll answer a few questions asked me and make a few other comments, too ...
Was he embellishing a melody already created by Richards or dod he create it himself? [on TWFNO]
On this song only, the music was started by Richards on a day that MT wasn't in the studio and out sick. Then a few weeks latter MT returned and came up with the guitar part that he played so brilliantly on the song. Clearly the song should have been credited as a Jagger/Richards/Taylor song. With that noted, on most of the other songs that MT should have gotten song writing credit on, Keith wasn't around at all, and the credit should have been "Jagger/Taylor" only.
Keno, why is MJ that way??
Of course it wasn't just Jagger, it was he along with Richards, and yet only Richards defended all of that crap years alter. But it really all started back in early 1965, thanks to their manager Andrew Loog Oldham. who got rid of the group credits that they did use early on ("Nanker Phelge"). ALO wanted to see the songwriting tag of "Jagger/Richards" become as big as the tag for "Lennon McCartney", and that's why he did it. There were at least a few songs early on that even the Glimmers didn't know this was to take place on, as ALO just took it on himself to only give the credits to Jagger/Richards. "Ruby Tuesday" was the last one that I know of where Jagger agreed to have the credits shown as "Jones/Richards", and Brian was promised by the Glimmers that he would be credited on the song. But ALO would have none of that and the song was credited as Jagger Richards even though Jagger had nothing at all to do with writing the song (as he admits), while the song was mainly all Brian's, other than Keith did help him with the lyrics. It was after this song was published where the true split started to take place between BJ and the Glimmers, and it was really ALO's fault that happened, since he started it all. ALO has the balls today to say he was Brian's friend, yes, it was Brian who hired him into the band as their manager, but he was the one who started the split between the Glimmers and the rest of the band. That, and he got credited and paid for being their record producer on all of the early LPs when in reality he wasn't, the Stones really produced their own music up until Jimmy Miller came around in 1968.
It's so obvious on GHS who carried the incredible guitar work by MT and I had a feeling he helped MJ co-write some of the songs on GHS & IORR.
Don't forget SF, too, Keith had nothing at all to do with "Moonlight Mile", MJ wrote the lyrics and MT mainly the music, although MJ had a hand in just a bit of the music, too.
It's not like MTs going to get a lot of money but you should want to help out MT any way MJ could!
Of course he would have gotten a lot of that money! There's a ton of cash in songwriting! He, Bill, and Brian lost all kinds of money over their not being credited for what they came up with. I think in MT's case, that he knew that without the Glimmers giving him a chance in the band in '69 when he wasn't well known, is part of the reason he didn't say anything until after he left the band. To this day he's still that way, no bad mouthing of the Glimmers since he has hope (or had some hope several years ago anyway) that they might take him back. MT's long time girlfriend, Marlies Damming, flat out told me this several years ago in more than one email, after she got a hold of of me after she felt us Gassers weren't being kind enough to MT. This was back after MT had gone on tour with the Stones for the 50 year anniversary tour and played a very limited role on 2 songs per night. When the next tour was being put together, rumors were flying that MT won't be a part of that new tour, and of course he wasn't. But the word that was going around was that he won't be on that new tour because he was in bad health - Keith flat out said that. MT's health was fine and had nothing to do with why he didn't join the next tour. Yet for some reason Marlies blamed me and Gasland for the rumor! We exchanged many emails over this, and in time she backed down, as I kept quoting what Keith said and noted to her that the other Stones boards were saying the very same things. We were all just repeating what the news media and Keith were saying. Anyway, in one email she stated to me that, MT had to watch what he said about the Glimmers, since if he was negative towards them, there won't be any future shows between him and them again... not that there ever was again. Yes, that one comment by her made sense, but she didn't want me to tell anybody about it, either, and I didn't. I told nobody anywhere (other than my daughter Jackie who posted here back then) that I was having daily email exchanges with her. This here today is the very first time I've brought it up here in Gasland, come to think of it. Marlies was at least back then, MT's manager, and I could tell from what she wrote me that she really cared about the guy (they have lived together since around 2000 or so), but I also didn't like her pointing the finger at us here - when we didn't start the rumor at all. All of that was unfair and I told her that. But the idea that MT might also be pissed at Gasland, after something she noted to me, made me very upset. Gasx3 was always a very pro MT board - we always took his side against the Glimmers, and I pointed that out to her and directed her to several old posts to prove it... So I never talked about any of that stuff here since it wasn't something cool at all, yet now in 2017 it all means little to me. The bottom line is that MT has always been loved by me and Gasland, to this very day - period, and we had nothing at all to do with starting that stupid rumor - nothing! That was Keith's doing, period!
...and who knows how many songs MT co-wrote from both GHS & IORR
On IORR, only 2, TWFNO and on "Till the Next Goodbye", his last song with the band. On GHS, he wrote the music to half the songs.
I enjoyed Brian's marimbas on Under My Thumb, but I think it remains the same song even without them.
I couldn't disagree more! That song was nothing without BJ's marimbas, his marimbas was the only reason why that song was a hit, and his playing was noted as to why it was a hit back in the day!
Did nobody give a rats ass about Brian Jones welfare showing the state of condition he fell to.
The truth was, the Stones did care about him and did help him, something that many forget today thanks to the nasty things Keith's been saying since the 1990s. Yet it was Keith who looked out the most for him in the late '60s. Well, not when it came to songwriting credits, but as far as he and Mick being his friend went. Now I know that the deal with Anita, BJ and Keith was the main reason why Brian left the band and Keith's actions there unforgivable; he will never be able to escape all of that. But that aside, it was Keith who was looking out for Brian in the late '60s, checking up on him, and talking Mick into making sure Brian was to be taken care of financially after he was out of the band, too. Keith was behind all of that caring for BJ. Not that Mick wasn't there for him too. Mick risked his life for Brian in early '68 at Keith's Redlands home when he thought Brian was drowning in Keith moat that surrounds the house. Gosh, that story is one of the best ones ever told involving the 3 of them! Brian was upset over something that day while the 3 of them were outside of Keith's house, and he runs into the moat, then pretends that he was drowning - yelling for help, while Keith knew all along that he was fine, since the moat was only 2 feet deep. But poor Mick didn't know that, and really thought Brian was in trouble and rushed into the murky/muddy water to save him, only to find out that Brian was pulling his leg once he was in the dirty water. Keith meanwhile was on dry land laughing his ass off over what had happened, and MJ then was pissed at both of them over what had happened.
But yes, they did look after him, and they did try to help him. They also made sure to have it noted in the press released when Brian left the band that his leaving might be a temporary breakup and that he might return to the group in time. Hell, Brian was even invited to the Hyde concert that turned into his memorial concert after he died just days before it was held. But talk about unusual things like that taking place between him and the Glimmers and them all caring; including Bill and Charlie, too, as they all cared about BJ.
All of the BS talk from Keith never took place until around 1990 or so. It seemed to start to happen after he and Anita split up and Anita blasted Keith big time, and she started to say all nice things about Brian, how Keith would had gone anywhere without Brian's help in the early days, and how Brian was so ahead of the Glimmers up until the late '60s. So that was when Keith changed and started to say negative things abut Brian (and Mick), and he then agreed to play Anita a large amount of alimony only if Anita would be quiet and never speak about Brian again.... and she hasn't said a word since.
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