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MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVES/WEEKLY ROCK POLL POST
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Name: Keno
E-Mail: keno@fairpoint.net
Subject: SG/B2B/B&B/ENHM/Monkees/Paul/Rock VS
Date: Monday, March 13, 2017
Time: 1:01:03 AM
Remote Address: 66.36.116.94
Message ID: 306929
Parent ID: 0
Thread ID: 306929
It’s that time of the brand new week to kick off the new poll post by talking first about the 2 Stones polls. This marks week 920 (and just 80 to go!) of the Stones poll! The first poll question asks this: Some Girls vs Bridges To Babylon, which album do you like the best?
vs Week 2 of the brand new Stones album VS poll simply called the "Some Girls" polls, featuring 1978’s Some Girls LP. Its record after last week’s battle is now 8-4, and this week it goes up against Bridges To Babylon, the third to last of the Stones studio albums, released in 1997. B2B is not doing well in this log running Stones series, currently at 2-10, just 3 spots from last place in the standing.
To see the song list for each album, for Some Girls, click on: SG, and for Bridges To Babylon, click here: B2B.
To cast your vote in this first Stones poll, just click on: Stones Weekly Poll, and when you get to this page, choose “Poll 1” to vote on this question.
This week at the regular Stones album VS poll, where each week we bring back an older series to do battle once again, we ask: Black and Blue vs England's Newest Hit Makers, which album do you like the best?
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For our regular second Stones album VS poll of the week, we return to the "The Black 'n Blue Polls", feature the 1976 release of Black and Blue. So far in the standings, B&B has had almost as hard a time in these matchups as B2B, with a record of 2-9, just one spot ahead of B2B in the standings. It goes up in this round against the Stones first LP, 1964’s England's Newest Hit Makers , which is doing just a bit better than B&B in these matchups at 3-7, 3 spots ahead of B&B in the standings.
To see the song list for each album, for Black and Blue, click on: B&B , and for England's Newest Hit Makers, click here: ENHM.
To cast your vote in this second Stones poll, just click on: Stones Weekly Poll, and when you get to this page, choose “Poll 2” to vote on this question.
At the Stones two polls last week, at the first one, the question asked was: Some Girls vs Tattoo You, which album do you like the best?
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Not too close voting in either poll last week. For our first Some Girls poll, the host LP won big time! To see by how much, just click here: Stones Weekly Poll - week 919 poll 1. I’ll also add the results from this poll to the standings at the Stones VS Page 1, where at the top of the page you can check out the updated standings on how each album has done in these long running VS polls
Looking back at last week’s second Stones poll, the question was: December's Children vs The Rolling Stones, Now!, which album do you like the best?
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I was thinking beforehand that this poll would be a lot closer than how turned out, To see the final result from this poll, just click on here:Stones Weekly Poll - week 919, poll 2. Plus just like with the SG VS polls, I’ll add the results from this poll to the standings at the Stones VS Page 1, where again, at the top of the page you can check out the updated standings on how each album has done in these long running VS polls.
Let’s head over now to this week’s Classic Rock Poll, where it’s week 560, and just like we do at the Stones poll, we run 2 poll questions a week at this one, too. The first poll’s question will ask this: Who was the most underrated member of The Monkees?
This week at this Rock poll we return to the rock series where we ask for the most underrated member of each rock band, and this week it's the Monkees turn to be voted on. But first, not to confuse anybody with the above photo of the band, no, there were never 5 Monkees at any time, just 4 of ‘em. In the photo is a 5th person, that being their long time and most often used producer, Chip Douglas (yes, the same guy who was in The Turtles). I ran into that photo, taken in 1967, as I had never seen any photos of them with beards before (other than I had seen a few with Peter wearing one) and found it funny, so decided to go with that photo for that reason.
Now no, there was never a rock group, or for that matter, a rock band, like the Monkees. There's no question that they were put together for a TV show only, as a bunch of actors, and they weren't ever meant to be a real, true rock band. But 3 of the 4 Monkees chosen weren't just actors, but real musicians, too, and they decided that they wanted to be a true band, too. But they weren't allowed to do that at first. Yes, they all were allowed to sing from the start, although on most of the first album (really on all of their albums) Micky Dolenz was the main lead singer (and mainly the only backing singer on the 1st LP, and the lead singer on most of their hit singles, while only Davy Jones would get to sing lead on a few singles, too). But since Michael Nesmith was already an established songwriter and had a top 10 hit single released by the Stone Poneys (with Linda Ronstadt on lead vocals for "A Different Drum") when he was hired to be in the Monkees, he was allowed to write 2 songs per album and he and Peter Tork were both allowed to play their instruments on those 2 songs on the first 2 albums.
When the group was first put together, the 4 actors were assigned as to who would be shown playing what, and at first only Nesmith and Dolenz were to play the instruments that they normally played, as Nesmith would be portrayed on the show as the lead guitarist, while Dolenz, who had played guitar on TV before - when he was a boy actor, was cast to be shown on the show as the band’s rhythm guitarist. Then Tork would be shown as the bassist, even though he was a guitarist and keyboardist who had never played bass before. Jones, who wasn't a musician at all and at the time didn't play any instruments, was cast to be the drummer. All of them would also be shown on the show as being equals as far as the singing went, although again on the actual records, Dolenz was the main lead singer, followed by Jones who sang lead the second most (again, on record). But when the 4 were placed in front of the TV cameras for the first rehearsals for the show, there was a problem with Jones, as he was way too short and couldn’t be seen when he sat behind the drum kit! So a change had to be made, and Dolenz, who had never played the drums before, was made to be the drummer instead, while Jones was set up to look more like the front man of the band, usually seen holding a tambourine while he sang, while other times a bass guitar (when Tork was shown playing keys). Dolenz in a short time actually learned to play drums pretty good, while Tork learned to play bass.
Once the TV show hit the air in 1966, which was a slapstick comedy show about these 4 musicians who lived together (and based on the first 2 very popular Beatle movies), well it was an instance hit, while their first 4 albums were also big time selling hits (all 4 LPs went to #1 on the charts), thanks in part to Dolenz, who had a great singing voice. They had several hit singles too, the first 2 going all the way to #1 in '66 ("Last Train to Clarksville" and "I'm a Believer", again, with all the vocals sung by Dolenz, although Jones did sing some backing vocals on the second single).
When it was time for their second LP to be recorded in early '67, the Monkees wanted to be allowed to play their instruments on the album. But management didn’t allow it, other than again on the 2 Nesmith songs only. By the third LP they demanded they be allowed to play, and since the first 2 LPs sold so well (again, both #1's), the Monkees flat insisted that they be allowed play their own instruments or they would quit the show and not record the LP at all. They were so big by then that their management had no choice but allow them to play instead of having session players taking their parts again. So that was the case for both their third LP Headquarters, and then on their fourth album Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd., which was their third album released in 1967 alone (and all 3 were #1 hit albums that year, mind you).
So Nesmith, Tork and Dolenz were the main musicians playing on Headquarters and Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd., with just some outside help. Only thing was that Tork rarely ever played any bass on any of their future LPs, and on these albums he played mainly the keys and guitars, along with some banjo, while he only played bass on one song on the 2 LPs. Dolenz did played the drums on most of the songs on Headquarters (along with some guitar), but played drums on only 2 songs on the next the LP, which he played some guitar too, but mainly played keyboards on that one. Dolenz also became the very first rocker and musician to ever play a synthesizer on record, on the 4th album (on the Nesmith penned song "Daily Nightly". He also played it on the song "Star Collector" too, that time along with a session player named Paul Beaver), as the new Moog synthesizer, the very first made synthesizer, had just come out, and he owned the first one that went up for sale.
But yes, session players still played most of the bass parts for them on Headquarters, and all of the bass and most drumming on Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd.. Nesmith of course played most of the lead guitar parts on both albums, although Tork played lead on a couple of the songs, with Dolenz playing lead on one song on Headquarters. Jones in time also learned how to play guitar too, but he never play any guitar on record, and he only played after the band broke up and then reformed on reunion tours (he would play guitar live on one song for each show, yet when I saw them in '86 at Red Rocks, I don't recall him playing guitar that day). Jones was at first credited for playing guitar on one of the Headquarters songs, the totally underrated song "Forget That Girl" (what a great song I must note), but the credits on that song were all noted wrong at first, as it was actually Dolenz playing both the drums and the acoustic guitar on there while Jones was singing the lead (not Dolenz as first noted - clearly it was Jones singing on there), but not only did the credits for acoustic guitar and lead vocals get switched around by accident, it was Nesmith (not Tork) playing 12-String Guitar, while Tork played Electric Piano on there and not guitar as he was first credited.
Yet by the time their last album before their first break up came out in '68, the trippy, soundtrack to their movie Head (also the name of the LP), they were back to using mainly sessions players again, other than Nesmith and Tork played some of the guitar parts on that one, while Dolenz sang most of the lead vocals (again) along with some help by Jones, who sang more harmony than anything else on that one.
As far as their acting went, well we don't normally cover that at all when we vote on this kind of question, but for this week only, I guess that could be considered just a bit. Dolenz and Jones were really the only true veteran actors in the group, with Dolenz having the most experience, as he was a well-known child actor in the late 1950s on TV, staring in the show "Circus Boy". Yet all 4 of them acted very well together on the show, no question about it (IMO anyway).
So overall, who IYO in the band/group was the most underrated one? That could be a hard choice to answer this week since all 4 of them were underrated, Jones for his singing, Dolenz for both his lead vocals and his playing, Tork for his great playing of several different instruments, and Nesmith for his excellent lead guitar playing (and a few other string instruments, too), and also for his lead singing on the band's country-rock songs, and his song writing (I should note that the other 3 also wrote some songs too, but most of the songs that came from the 4 band members were written by Nesmith).
To vote and see the choice list, just click here: Classic Rock Poll, and when you get to this page, choose “Poll 1” to vote on this question.
For this week's VS Rock poll we ask this: 'Lonesome Loser' by The Little River Band vs 'Desperado' by The Eagles, which song about a loser in love, is better?
Now I already know that some of you Gassers (mainly who no longer post but who still lurk here), are gonna totally hate this question. Too bad, cause it's really a great question indeed! Yes, the Eagles haters that Gasland used to have so many of (yet I was never one, since I always dug the Eagles), just hates anything Eagles related, period (so here's their chance to vote against them then).
Then we got the Little River Band's 1979 song "Lonesome Loser" that some rock fans claim is a cheesy rock song (again, not me). Written by the band's guitarist at the time, David Briggs, LL of course has a cleaver double meaning to it, one meaning is that it's actually about a person who just keep losing at gambling - and not with woman, but the song's main meaning is about a guy who always is striking out in love with woman.
"Desperado" was a 1973 song written by the Eagles' Glenn Frey and Don Henley. It was never released as a single, yet it is one of the group's best known songs. The song was at first written by Henley as a true story about a friend of his name Leo. He first wrote the lyric "Leo, my God, why don’t you come to your senses..." and just a line or 2 more, then left the song behind until he and Frey decided to write together, and he showed what he had written so far to Fey, who pretty much took off on what Henley started and finished up the song mainly by himself.
It's funny that both of these songs use playing cards to describe the woman and problems the guy in the song has. Guess it made better sense in the Little River Band's song, with the lyric "Beaten by the Queen of Hearts every time…" since that song is again also about a gambler who keeps on losing all of his money. The Eagles use the same kind of lyric to describe the kind of women who the man in their song also keeps picking up and losing to regularly "Don't you draw the Queen of Diamonds, she'll beat you if she's able, you know the Queen of Hearts is always your best bet".
To make your pick between these 2 songs, just click on Classic Rock Poll, and when you get to this page, choose “Poll 2” to vote on this question.
In last week’s first Rock poll, we asked: On what song did Leon Russell shine the brightest?
The last week (for now) of the session players poll. This poll was close all week long, with the Stones cover song “Jumping Jack Flash” (Vocals/Piano/Producer) chosen as his best work. Two votes behind that in second was his best ever selling single, “Tight Rope“ (Vocals/Piano/Bass/Writer/Producer), followed in third by “Young Blood” (Vocals/Piano/Producer), just one vote behind. Interesting that all 3 songs had nothing to do with his great session work, while the 4th place song “The Letter” (Piano/Producer) with Joe Cocker, did.
To see the full, final results from this poll, click here: Classic Rock Poll 1, week 559 Or, to just view the final top ten picks from this poll, they will show up at the Top songs. by Artists and Session Players page. So just click here for: Top Ten Lists, Page, 13
In last week’s VS Rock poll, we asked: 'See See Rider' by The Animals vs 'C.C. Rider' by Mitch Ryder & The Detroit Wheels, which cover version was better? Like the first rock poll, this one was real close all week long, too. To see which song came out on top, click here: Classic Rock Poll 1, week 559 You can also check out the final results at the VS results page 2, at the Classic Rock site, just click on: VS Page 2, List Page 10.
I end our poll post as usual with the Beatles poll, where it’s week 313, and this week’s question is: Of the following 4 songs written about Paul McCartney, which one is the best?
Last week I asked almost this same question about John Lennon and came up with 19 songs that were totally about John. So as I often like to do at this poll, I wanted to ask the same exact question about Paul McCartney next, but when I went to Google to search to find songs written about or for Paul, there were none to be found. None!... Not even the 4 I already had listed that I knew about already. But there just aren't any such songs like that that Google at least knows about. I guess you got to be killed first for a lot of people to start writing about you, either that or go get some close friends of yours real mad at you - yes, then they just might write about you.
So I still had these 4 songs about Paul on my list, written by his former mates, and all 4 were nasty ones about him. Those 4 songs are all that will be listed this week. I almost decided not to run the question since I only had these songs, and since I didn’t want or even mean to run a poll question that looked like it was anti-Paul, since I do love the man, even if I, like most other Beatle fans, took John's side in the dispute that they had, which in turn resulted in 3 of these 4 songs being written. But I figured since these 4 songs were all written by his former bandmates and was directly about him, well then, this is a fair poll question to ask.
"Wah-Wah" was the first song written out of the 4, and written by George Harrison while he was still in the Beatles, after he and Paul had their filmed argument (the one shown in the doc Let it Be), which George ended up leaving the band over for a few days. He went and wrote this song about Paul at that time. Some morons who write at Wikipedia actually note in error that George also wrote the song about John Lennon, too, but that is nothing but a total falsehood, one that I hadn’t even heard before until I read it there. George himself flat out said - more than once, that the song was about Paul only, and that he wrote it directly after the LIB argument. Then Wikipedia, in the very same article, notes that George confirmed that the song was only about Paul - using those very words, and again, in the very same article where they falsely claim the song was about John! Well, that crap should be taken down and corrected, since it's nothing but incorrect and false information. That's why I call some who do the writing and editing over there, morons (yeah I know they aren't paid at all to do that work, but come on, how do you state 2 totally different things in the same exact article?); that's why you can't believe half of what you read at that site.
The other 3 songs were written after the breakup, and after Paul started his war with John, after he wrote and recorded the worst song he ever penned, "Too Many People". John's reply song to him, "How Do You Sleep" was written directly in response to Paul’s rude and uncalled for song, and IMO, John's song goes down as one of the greatest putdown songs ever recorded. Now don't take that as me endorsing this song in the poll, I haven't even decided yet which song I'll go with, but do remember, the question isn't asking for the best put down song written about Paul ever recorded, anyway. It's just asking for the best song overall out of the 4, but not for the best putdown song.
Ringo Starr's "Back Off Boogaloo" was put together with the help of former Beatle George - just like George had helped John record his song about Paul "How Do You Sleep", where George played the lead, slide guitar on. So yes, George played a big part on all 4 of these songs listed. Ringo (who I should note also played drums on the Lennon song), being the nice guy that he is, would never say in public that this song was about Paul, especially after all the wounds were healed. Yet when the tune was being recorded and was first released, he told at least some of his friends that yes, it was about Paul and about Paul suing him and his 2 other former bandmates at the time. That's something that to this day he can't take back. But the nasty lyrics were clearly about Paul (and Paul knew it was about him - how could he not?): "Wake up, meathead, don't pretend that you are dead, get yourself up off the cart". This was written during the time that the "Paul is dead" rumor/story was going around real strong, and while Paul was taking a break and hiding out from everybody on his Scottish farm. "Get yourself together now and give me something tasty, everything you try to do, you know it sure sounds wasted", was a direct slam against Paul too, for writing his nasty song about John, while Ringo at the time had also publicly criticized McCartney's solo albums McCartney and Ram when they were release.
One last note on this song, is that I don't know if it's true or false that Starr, Lennon and Harrison used to call Paul "Boogaloo" while he was in the Beatles, using it as a code name for him. That's a story I recall hearing way back when this all was going down, and is also noted in at least a couple of books published about the Beatles. Nobody in the band has ever denied this, nor said it was true, either. Ringo did claim that he got to using the word himself thanks to his late friend Marc Bolen (leader of the band T-Rex), who would use the word a lot... but Marc ain't around to confirm if that's true, but if it is, it still doesn't mean anything as to if it was Paul's nickname within the band, or not. Bottom line is that it's good that Ringo has buried the hatchet with Paul, as did both George and John long before they passed. So denying that the song is about Paul today is fine with me, even if most of us know better.
George's second song on the list, "Sue Me, Sue You Blues", was at first believed to be about the entire band and not just Paul, since they were all in court fighting at this point. But George later said that number was only about Paul, since he was the one who sued everybody in the band first, trigging him at that time to write this lyric directly about Paul: "Well, you serve me and I'll serve you, swing your partners, we all get screwed".
So anyway, if you rather forget about this terrible time in Beatle history, you can skip this week's poll question I guess, but as much as I'm still a fan of the man named Paul McCartney, I still won't deny the truth of the matter, and these songs all tell the ugly truth of that time period, and what did take place and what and who really ended the greatest band ever - and like it or not, it was Paul's fault in the end for the breakup of the band - and nobody else’s. Those who blame Yoko Ono for their breakup aren't paying attention. Yes, John wanted out of the band too, but it wasn't Yoko's fault either, and it was Paul who started the legal process in a way that it didn't have to go, and why it all ended so nasty.
As a Beatle fan, I do forgive Paul for taking away the greatest rock band ever from us all. But, like so many fans, I can't forget it happened, either. I also, as a fan, wish that none of these songs were ever made, too - but I guess they had to be, and all 4 of them are good songs indeed. Yet I can never say that about the song Paul wrote about John which started the entire mess in the first place. Okay, yes, the music to that song is okay, but it contains real stupid, unnecessary lyrics that Paul wrote to insult his best friend with, and for no good reason.
To make your choice and to vote in this poll, go here: Beatles Weekly Poll.
In last week's Beatles poll we answered this question: Of the following songs written about (or for) John Lennon, which one is the best? The top 4 songs chosen last week were all written by John himself, with “In My Life” by The Beatles the top pick. You can check out all of the songs from this poll and see where they finished, here: Beatles Weekly Poll – week 312. Or, you can check out the poll’s top pick only at the following Beatles list page, just click on John Lennon Polls, which is located at the domain’s Lennon Site.
That will do it for this week’s poll thread. If you live in the U.S., did you make it through the first day of the very stupid Daylight Saving (nothing) time? Gosh do I hate living in the wrong time zone for more than half the year thanks to our stupid government and DST!
I thank all of you who take part in the voting here each week in our 5 weekly polls!
Keno
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